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Thebit

"I don't think France is a bellwether for the rest of Europe."

Hmmm. Not sure about that. France and Germany are two very large countries in the EU. Only the UK stands out with a slightly different tradition to religion-state (which many want to change). Europe's secularism is probably more aggressive, anti-clerical. Britain is probably more indifferent to religion, as long as it doesn't hamper the pursuit of the general "good" it can be left alone.

islamoyankee

Salaam Thebit,

I agree France and Germany are large, and they clearly form a center of European power together, with the UK as another center. However, they are not all of Europe.

As I suggest above, I really think the situation in France is driven more by racism. This is not to deny the strong anti-religious sentiments present in the state structure, as witnessed by the hostility directed to the Catholic Church a decade ago. The conflation between race and religion can be witnessed by the reference to les pieds noir in discussing immigrants. It's an economic/racial divide that becomes tied to religious identity. Of course it's not unique to France, and in many respects Islam has become the religion of resistance much as it did in the US and UK.

Germany's xenophobia is extremely well-known, and their naturalization laws reflect that attitude. Over two generations of the gastarbeiter program, and Turks still cannot be citizens, but 4th generation Americans can.

Both countries' policies, I believe, as being opposed to the EU's conception of human rights, and I would be surprised if the Human Rights Commission doesn't temper some of the laws.

Spain has an interesting formal relationship between the state and Islamic organization as can be this law.

In 1998, an Ismaili Jamatkhana was opened with state cooperation in Lisbon.

Greece is clearly having issues with their Muslim population, but because the issue of mosque building is related to the Olympics, I actually thing the pressure and focus will help the Greeks to a good short-term resolution.

The Italians have been surprisingly open with their Muslim population, but I think it's because they are so firm in their Catholic identity.

You can't forget Turkey, the "poor-man" of Europe, with the largest Muslim population in terms of numbers and percentage. It's moving away from legislating against religion, in part for admittance to the EU.

The Netherlands are more problematic, but I think with the death of Pym Fortyn some of the more aggressive rhetoric has died down. He actually did a bit to open the debate as to what it means to be Dutch.

So, while I do agree France and Germany are important centers of power, I don't think they represent the state of Europe's acceptance of Muslims.

Regards,
islamoyankee

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